Don, I thought you might enjoy seeing some still shots of these guys...

Here are a couple of the females, although the first one has me a bit puzzled - notice that faint blue...




And that male that I'm falling in love with on a daily basis...


I expect to have spawning from this group by the weekend!

Love is in the air around here...I've got both female trewavasae holding and more white top females looking ready, but the Msobo male seems to be clearing a path in the tank for something!

Thanks for looking at them, and Don, if you and Dave want to post pics of your guys in this thread, please feel free!

Kim

I really like these fish, Kim!

Beautiful male coloring as well!

Boy,,,your at it again huh,,,,,watching them spwan and knowing when they are going to do it???? Hmmmm You were always video taping them doing the "chicken dance" on that "other" forum,,,,you still peeping "Mrs.'?

Love the colours on the males as well.

Hey,,,,tell the "Mr." I said hello. Cheers!!!

Nice fish Kim, a local buddy (Scott Carlson) just got a spawn from his. They have turned out pretty darn nice, I got to see them last weekend after we came back from the GCCA swap. I moved my Membe Deeps to a bigger tank with my Zebra Long Pelvics and group of smaller Yellow labs, hopefully they start coloring up soon. They adjusted pretty well, didn't notice a one with any nipping.

Love those photos! Like you, I keep liking my Msobo more and more each week.

As if I were reading your mind before I read your post, I got my Met. Estherae out of the 55 where my Msobo are tonight (finally), since I assume his almost-perfect color match to the Msobo females' orange was messing up their spawning patterns.

For the moment I have him in with my Demasoni, Yellow Labs and Albino Socolofi, but we'll have to see how he behaves himself. If he turns into Tank Boss there I may have to take him to my work tank. If he misbehaves there it's the LFS.

Gotta clean glass and take pics so we can compare males. Yours (who is GORGEOUS) seems to have some bars, but not like the Msobo heteropictus in Konings 3rd Edition. My male looks like the Msobo Magunga photo next to it on p. 164, but has light blue only on the top third of his body, not on his flank. They were sold to me as "Msobo Deep."

Your females look like my females, which are definitely orange rather than yellow. I also have some females with a trace of blue on their dorsal fins... at least I hope they're females! 2 of my males have changed and are drop-dead gorgeous, a third is changing At least 2 of my females have a dash of blue on their foreheads as well as their dorsals, so I may have an ugly surprise still and end up with 6M, 1F or something. Grrrr

Anyone know a good mail order breeder?

Don, I got these from Larry, but they were at the store, not his own personal stash from home...Most of the time, the barring isn't evident in person, basically I only see it in a still pic of him. The lighter colour is getting lighter all the time, and going further down into his body...

I'm willing to bet that male red zebra was causing problems as far as breeding goes. It's amazing what removing one fish can do...Of course, that still leaves you with concern of the Msobo trying to spawn with the estherae females! Something I really never thought about before!

Kim

Beautiful fish Kim. Gotta love that blue! Drooly

Those are real beauties Kim! Tres Bien!

In the short time I've kept these any fish with any color in the dorsal ended up being a male. Out of my group of 7 I ended up with 4 males and 3 females but of course they haven't sucessfully spawned yet. The male is willing but the females are content to pick at the algae. I'll try to get some pics of mine to compare with yours and Don's fish.
I ended up getting rid of my extra males to my lfs for store credit.

I have a funny feeling that first "female" in the pics above might be a subdominant male. The blue is more evident in person than in the pic, and this one seems to be challenging my known male rather than flirting with him. Giggly

These guys really are becoming one of my favourites. The colour contrasts with the White tops are just great, and I'm hoping this male Msobo will have enough attitude to put my two male White tops in their place.

I'd love to see pics of yours when you get time!

Kim

Kim, none of my female msobo's had an egg spot, do yours?

That's still up for grabs... Giggly

The top one in the pic (that I think might be a male) has one. The other 4 have none.

What about yours, Dave and Don?

Kim

The three alleged females I have do not have any eggspots at all.

Kim, I definitely know egg spots are considered a hit or miss way of telling the gender of pseudo's, but I believe that msobo's are one of the species that egg spots are more often that not, indicative of a male. Hmmmm

I know what you mean, Les...

Egg spots aren't supposed to be indicative of anything, but with those Cobalts I used to keep, all my females had only one...Males had too many to count, but females had just one...

I'll probably be okay if I do have the two males, they seem to be tolerating each other for now...

Kim

Lots going on in Msobo-land!

As of this morning, I think I have my first holding Msobo female, 10 months after getting them. And 4 days after I took that darn male Estherae out of the tank!

I have no female Estherae, so no issues there.

My fully-changed male Msobo both have 3 egg spots. The largely-changed male has 2.

My holding female, if I have that event ID'd right, has 2 egg spots. Most of the other alleged females have one or two.

We'll see if this is real or a false alarm!

Don

Don, we may be grandparents around the same time...If these guys of mine don't spawn and calm down, I hate to see what happens to the tank.

The weirdest thing is that my known male seems to be very intent on courting the one that I thought was a subdominant male???

Kim

What's weird is that if she really is holding it answers one question about sexing: she has blue at the front of her dorsal fin and a few specs of blue on her forehead.

A regional subspecies? A way for Msobo females to ID themselves as different from other orange species?

Or have I mistaken something else for an early-stage holding female?

Don, maybe the dominant females have the blue tint???

I was watching those two of mine last night for a long time. It would be very hard to convince me now that the one I was questioning was a subdom male...I think she's the "queen" of the girls...What I'm seeing isn't male/male behaviour...

Kim

I read somewhere that Msobo female status-jousting is extreme even for Mbuna.

Your post makes me feel better that I'm not nuts seeing what I'm seeing. I think next weekend I'll get her out and into her own tank to live the spa-and-massage life.

I can now certify that my holding female does have faint light flecks of blue on her forehead and a little blue on the from of her dorsal fin.

Getting her out and into her own 6G today. Cross fingers she doesn;t spit in the net. Her first brood, though she's grown to a good size as she waited for me to get the orange Estherae out of there!
Don

Good luck with the spawn, Don!

I should be getting these Msobos next Tuesday afternoon!

Hope everything goes well!

Kim

Those are very nice-looking fish Kim.

I'd love to have some myself, but I bet my saulosi wouldn't appreciate that!

Good luck with your spawn, Pseudo. Hope you were able to catch her with no problems.

So far, so good. I got her into the 6G with all my plastic plants to make her feel safe.

Taking out all the rocks also gave me the chance to do a really good gravel vacuum in the entire tank instead of just the "front traffic lane." Did a 40% water change.

I also moved out the yellow labs so that I'd have no "close to orange" other fish in the tank.

One of my two "both look dominant" Msobo males started displaying for a female within 20 minutes of having the rocks back in! The third male is completing his color change and giving the other two a wide berth.

With the labs gone to another tank (making it easier to count orange msobos) it looks like my mix could end up 3M, 5F. None of the remaining alleged females has more blue on her than my holding female.

Now I have to decide how to subdivide Msobo, Acei and Lab. Hongi between the 55 and the new 125 when I finally get it.

I'm kind of wishing I had another couple of males and a higher female ratio...I think my breeding with this group would progress faster if I did. They are "going through the motions", but no results.

I guess I'm impatient because we haven't been salvaging many fry lately and I've got a grow out tank full of White Tops and trewavasae right now, and I'd like to see some of those yellow babies mixed in the bunch!

Kim

It's funny when I thinned out my group one of them had just a hint of blue in its dorsal just like all the males did just before they colored up so she/he went with the boys to the LFS. The owner even asked me are you sure it's not a girl? What a dope am I!
Mine are going through the motions with no sucess or interest on the girls part. Figures!

I will agree that the girls spend more time chasing each other around than paying attention to the male.

I tried taking some pics but they all stunk so I won't post them. I'll try again but it is my work tank and people will have definite proof I'm nuts if I am caught taking fish pics on company time! :FAINTLY:

My holding female just spit her very large orange fry -- have to get her out of there ASAP so she doesn't eat them. I'd guess there are 8-10.

After 10 months of trying, my first Msobo spawn!

Congrats on becoming an uncle! Post some pics of the little fellas if yopu got a chance.

Will you be passing out NLS soaked cigars to the forum? Drooly

On the Floor Laughing

Congrats, Don!

I don't think mine are ever going to do the deed, but I have to keep in mind that they are younger than yours.

The females seem to have worked out all their problems for now, but the little male still hasn't got a clue. He tries to get their attention, but he's not quite got it down yet.

Kim

Noticed last night that male #3, my "Hongi Mimic" Msobo, was trying to quietly display a little for the Msobo females when the two big brothers weren't watching.

Awwww, Don, he's that shy guy at the high school dance that we all know and remember!

I bet he's quite the ladies man underneath it all! Giggly

Probably very courteous and mannerly, and who knows? The girls may tire of the "bad boy" type and give him a try!

I just wish he would decide who he wants to be when he grows up...Get a sense of direction to his life!

Kim

Thought I'd update this thread...

I've finally got a dropped tube on one of my Msobo females, so I expect we'll have fry soon!



Notice the bluish tint to her?



A little competition between the two largest females:



And my male is showing out today:





And an updated pic of the tank:



Any pics of those fry yet, Don?

Kim

My Msobos actually spawned over the weekend in my work tank! I may have to remove her she is getting harrassed continually from the other females. She is a first timer so I'm not expecting her to hold to term.

Kim
I never would have guessed the gender of that fish without seeing the dropped tube.

I know what you mean, Dave...I was beginning to think this one might be another subdominant male. But, by observation, she appears to be my dominant female.

I still don't know if the one who got killed was female or male, but judging from the attitude on this one and the way she has stepped up to bat, I'm betting it was a female and this one killed her!

I plan to remove her as soon as the spawn occurs, which should be within the next couple of days, just because the aggression level among the females is so high. I generally let them stay in the main tank a couple of weeks, but I don't think a "challenged" female would survive this rowdy bunch.

Kim

Hey Kim, I was fortunate enough to get 13 Msobos from Birdman a
couple of weeks ago.

They are about 2 1/2 to 3 inches long and I have yet to see any of them
turning to their male coloration.

Out of 13 Msobos, surely I have a male in the bunch somewhere!

At what size did your males turn colors?

My male was showing some colour at 2 inches...But it took him forever to go through this gawky teenager stage where he looked like someone slung ink on him and forgot to wash him off.

I'm not even sure he's done with his transformation now...He's just about 3 1/2 inches.

I know with multiple males, they can be slower to colour up.

And the females can spend alot of time trying to determine hierarchy in the tank, so this could intimidate the males somewhat...(I think I'm going to name my big nasty female "Sue", after Pete's ex!)

Kim

My experience matches Kim's the first changes started at about 2.5" and it takes months for the full effect.

I agree. They started coloring up around the 2 inch mark. The first indication for mine was the development of the black dorsal stripe.

Get ready, Mark...Those males are scary ugly for awhile once they start transforming. It's the "ugly duckling/swan" thing!

I have a sneaking feeling subdominant males can hide it really well, too, so don't rule anything out. I still don't know if the one that got killed was a male or female.

I really need to learn how to vent. Now this should be good!

Kim

For me the first sign was that the trace of blue on the forehead and the front of the dorsal that the adult females have started to develop, and then kept developing. The light blue then gradually spread backwards from the head to the tail, then the dark blue gradually started to replace most of the light blue.