Title: Bloat treatment options
Kim - June 18, 2007 03:38 PM (GMT)
Very few of us can say that we've never had to deal with bloat in our cichlid tanks.
I think it would be great to have a thread dedicated soley to your experiences with bloat in your tanks, your treatment methods, preventative measures, etc.
So, here are the questions I would like you to ponder and answer! (I want to hear from you calm, cool and collected conservatives as well as the "bring out the big guns" medication people!)
How many times have you experienced bloat in your tanks?
What signs and symptoms led you to diagnose bloat?
What treatment method did you use?
Was the treatment successful at the recommended dosage and treatment length?
Did you use epsom salt in conjunction with the medication of choice?
If you didn't use metronidazole soaked food, did you refrain from feeding during treatment?
I think this will be a very interesting topic, with potential to help others in the future.
Be very specific with your answers and give details of pertinent information.
TIA
Kim
I think it would be great to have a thread dedicated soley to your experiences with bloat in your tanks, your treatment methods, preventative measures, etc.
So, here are the questions I would like you to ponder and answer! (I want to hear from you calm, cool and collected conservatives as well as the "bring out the big guns" medication people!)
How many times have you experienced bloat in your tanks?
What signs and symptoms led you to diagnose bloat?
What treatment method did you use?
Was the treatment successful at the recommended dosage and treatment length?
Did you use epsom salt in conjunction with the medication of choice?
If you didn't use metronidazole soaked food, did you refrain from feeding during treatment?
I think this will be a very interesting topic, with potential to help others in the future.
Be very specific with your answers and give details of pertinent information.
TIA
Kim
preacherboy - June 18, 2007 04:08 PM (GMT)
I have experienced bloat in my Mbuna tank once.
Fish either begin to spit out their food or wouldn't eat at all.
I know most people experience their fish having white feces, but
mine did not.
In addition, my fish did not have swollen bellies, but instead, they
began to have skrunken abdomens.
I used JPC (Jungle Parasite Clear) for the full treatment. I was able to save one
fish out of three. I used the meds as prescribed for the full length prescribed.
I added aquarium salt as well.
I refrained from feeding my fish for 7 days and then only began to feed them
sparingly the first week after treatment.
I have not had anymore problems since with bloat now that I watch carefully
watch how much I feed them and observe them often at feeding time!
Fish either begin to spit out their food or wouldn't eat at all.
I know most people experience their fish having white feces, but
mine did not.
In addition, my fish did not have swollen bellies, but instead, they
began to have skrunken abdomens.
I used JPC (Jungle Parasite Clear) for the full treatment. I was able to save one
fish out of three. I used the meds as prescribed for the full length prescribed.
I added aquarium salt as well.
I refrained from feeding my fish for 7 days and then only began to feed them
sparingly the first week after treatment.
I have not had anymore problems since with bloat now that I watch carefully
watch how much I feed them and observe them often at feeding time!
Guest - June 18, 2007 05:19 PM (GMT)
preacherboy, when you say you saved one fish out of 3, were all 3 fish showing symptoms, or was this one okay all along?
I'm really starting to question treatment methods for bloat.
Actually, I'm really starting to question the existence of bloat altogether.
I think we tend to lump alot of gastrointestinal disorders under the diagnosis of bloat, and from what I'm seeing, alot of the treatments are not helping in many cases. I'm really starting to believe that fasting and epsom salt should be the first mode of treatment. Some of the meds are pretty harsh (Clout) and if they aren't working, why are we using them? And if we're fasting as we're treating, how do we know what is really helping?
For the record, I've had what appeared to be bloat in every sense of the word EXCEPT white stringy feces, too.
Maybe others will weigh in on this subject with their experiences.
Does anyone have any clue where Clout and metronidazole came into play for treating bloat in the first place??? Is this just something some hobbyist tried and word got out, or is it proven in any way?
Kim
I'm really starting to question treatment methods for bloat.
Actually, I'm really starting to question the existence of bloat altogether.
I think we tend to lump alot of gastrointestinal disorders under the diagnosis of bloat, and from what I'm seeing, alot of the treatments are not helping in many cases. I'm really starting to believe that fasting and epsom salt should be the first mode of treatment. Some of the meds are pretty harsh (Clout) and if they aren't working, why are we using them? And if we're fasting as we're treating, how do we know what is really helping?
For the record, I've had what appeared to be bloat in every sense of the word EXCEPT white stringy feces, too.
Maybe others will weigh in on this subject with their experiences.
Does anyone have any clue where Clout and metronidazole came into play for treating bloat in the first place??? Is this just something some hobbyist tried and word got out, or is it proven in any way?
Kim
preacherboy - June 18, 2007 06:15 PM (GMT)
All 3 fish stopped eating and were hanging out in the corners of
the tank. At the time, I was a newbe to African cichlids so I didn't
know what I was experiencing.
I agree that a lot of diagnosis of internal problems are blamed on
"bloat."
I also agree that fasting and epsom salt should be a first mode of
treatment in many cases.
However, advanced cases of "bloat" can only be treated with meds,
and often, these meds will not cure the affected fish.
But they do aid in the further prevention and spread of bloat to unaffected
fish.
In addition, stressors like aggression, can often cause fish to become
immuno compromised and thus they become suseptible to many diseases.
As to the use of Clout and Met, these treatments came about probably by
manufacturers suggestions and the countless trial and errors of very experienced
aquarists from all over the world.
HTH!
the tank. At the time, I was a newbe to African cichlids so I didn't
know what I was experiencing.
I agree that a lot of diagnosis of internal problems are blamed on
"bloat."
I also agree that fasting and epsom salt should be a first mode of
treatment in many cases.
However, advanced cases of "bloat" can only be treated with meds,
and often, these meds will not cure the affected fish.
But they do aid in the further prevention and spread of bloat to unaffected
fish.
In addition, stressors like aggression, can often cause fish to become
immuno compromised and thus they become suseptible to many diseases.
As to the use of Clout and Met, these treatments came about probably by
manufacturers suggestions and the countless trial and errors of very experienced
aquarists from all over the world.
HTH!
Kim - June 19, 2007 07:58 PM (GMT)
Once they stop eating, I find it very hard to bring them back around. Often, not eating is the first sign or symptom we tend to notice.
The meds we use for "bloat" are so harsh, and I sometimes wonder if we're "overusing" them, and causing the fish to build up an immune response to the medications themselves, and perhaps that is why conventional treatments are no longer working as they once did against bloat.
IME, especially in moderating a large illness forum, I find that it's a very RARE occasion when one round of one treatment solves the problem, whether it be Clout, met, or JPC.
I'm just not sure if it is because we aren't diagnosing it quickly enough, or we're misdiagnosing it completely!
Just thinking out loud here!
Kim
The meds we use for "bloat" are so harsh, and I sometimes wonder if we're "overusing" them, and causing the fish to build up an immune response to the medications themselves, and perhaps that is why conventional treatments are no longer working as they once did against bloat.
IME, especially in moderating a large illness forum, I find that it's a very RARE occasion when one round of one treatment solves the problem, whether it be Clout, met, or JPC.
I'm just not sure if it is because we aren't diagnosing it quickly enough, or we're misdiagnosing it completely!
Just thinking out loud here!
Kim
Aura - June 22, 2007 04:38 PM (GMT)
I've had to deal with bloat once, last year, just in one tank.
The symptom I first noticed was the fish, an OB peacock, spitting out food. He still looked fine and was swimming around like normal at that time. A couple of days later there was the thin white poop.
I isolated him to a 10 gallon and used the Clout treatment. There was very little improvement so I decided to try Jungle's Parasite Clear. After the JPC he started looking better and eating. I kept him in isolation until I saw normal poop.
I did add epsom salt - about a tablespoon.
He had stopped eating, but every couple of days I would put a pellet in, just to see if he had any interest in eating - he did not. Toward the end when he started looking better, I fed him sparingly with frozen green peas before adding the NLS pellets back.
I've read that stress can lead to bloat, but this fish was one of the more dominant in the tank and I never saw him being bullied. I know there can be other causes of stress as well.
I treated the tank he came from with the Parasite Clear because a couple of other fish didn't seem to be as active as usual and haven't had any other problems. Knock on wood!
I just wanted to add a link to an article that I found pretty interesting. Someone actually examined the stomach contents.
http://www.aquaworldnet.com/awmag/obseng.htm
The symptom I first noticed was the fish, an OB peacock, spitting out food. He still looked fine and was swimming around like normal at that time. A couple of days later there was the thin white poop.
I isolated him to a 10 gallon and used the Clout treatment. There was very little improvement so I decided to try Jungle's Parasite Clear. After the JPC he started looking better and eating. I kept him in isolation until I saw normal poop.
I did add epsom salt - about a tablespoon.
He had stopped eating, but every couple of days I would put a pellet in, just to see if he had any interest in eating - he did not. Toward the end when he started looking better, I fed him sparingly with frozen green peas before adding the NLS pellets back.
I've read that stress can lead to bloat, but this fish was one of the more dominant in the tank and I never saw him being bullied. I know there can be other causes of stress as well.
I treated the tank he came from with the Parasite Clear because a couple of other fish didn't seem to be as active as usual and haven't had any other problems. Knock on wood!
I just wanted to add a link to an article that I found pretty interesting. Someone actually examined the stomach contents.
http://www.aquaworldnet.com/awmag/obseng.htm
Kim - June 22, 2007 05:23 PM (GMT)
That article is really interesting, Aura.
The autopsy findings were intriguing. I just wish I knew that we wouldn't find the same things if we did an autopsy on a seemingly healthy fish!
I'd really never considered forcefeeding my fish, but it's certainly something to consider. Of course, discus food would be a bit easier to do that with. I can just see us mashing up pellet and flake and putting it in a syringe!
I'm not a big Clout proponent. I've never seen it do alot of good used alone, or even for the prescribed treatment span. I've got a feeling it will soon be impossible to find or even use without a prescription.
The medications that we have available to use for fish are basically only going to work if you catch the illness very early. They don't really contain enough of the necessary ingredients to do much of anything, especially if the disease or illness has progressed.
Kim
The autopsy findings were intriguing. I just wish I knew that we wouldn't find the same things if we did an autopsy on a seemingly healthy fish!
I'd really never considered forcefeeding my fish, but it's certainly something to consider. Of course, discus food would be a bit easier to do that with. I can just see us mashing up pellet and flake and putting it in a syringe!
I'm not a big Clout proponent. I've never seen it do alot of good used alone, or even for the prescribed treatment span. I've got a feeling it will soon be impossible to find or even use without a prescription.
The medications that we have available to use for fish are basically only going to work if you catch the illness very early. They don't really contain enough of the necessary ingredients to do much of anything, especially if the disease or illness has progressed.
Kim
David - July 10, 2007 02:33 AM (GMT)
100% NATURAL TREATMENT FOR BLOAT
--------------------------------------------------
1) Epsom salts. (100%.....No other additives)
2) Large water changes over a period of about 1 week.
Step one: First things first..... Set up a quarantine aquarium using 50% of the water from the tank the sick fish came from & 50% newly treated water from your tap / water source.
Step two: Remove the sick fish / fishes and transfer them into the quarantine aquarium for treatment.
Step three: Add 2 - 3 tablespoons of Epsom salts per 5 gallons of tank water. You will be adding Epsom salts according to the full gallonage of aquarium. (If you have a 135g, treat all 135 gallons) 54 - 81 tablespoons of Epsom salts for a 135 gallon.
Step four: Do not feed the fish at anytime during the Epsoms salt treatment, you will have to wait until the complete treatment is finished. I do mean...NO FOOD!
Step five: Water changes will take place every second day for six days & will be as follows.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day one: Do a 50% water change & add Epsom salts to replacement water.
Day two: -
Day three: Do a 50% water change & add Epsom salts to replacement water.
Day four: -
Day five: Do a 50% water change & add Epsom salts to replacement water.
Day six: -
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Step six: The fish should be wanting food at this point, feed small amounts until you work back to regular feedings. (Epsom salts will be used throughout full treatment & all replacement water) NOTE: My fish are used to 50% water changes, I do 50% approx. Every 5 - 6 days. If you only do approx. 30-40% then I would do the same throughout the treatment or you may shock your fish & possibly lose fish/fishes.
--------------------------------------------------
1) Epsom salts. (100%.....No other additives)
2) Large water changes over a period of about 1 week.
Step one: First things first..... Set up a quarantine aquarium using 50% of the water from the tank the sick fish came from & 50% newly treated water from your tap / water source.
Step two: Remove the sick fish / fishes and transfer them into the quarantine aquarium for treatment.
Step three: Add 2 - 3 tablespoons of Epsom salts per 5 gallons of tank water. You will be adding Epsom salts according to the full gallonage of aquarium. (If you have a 135g, treat all 135 gallons) 54 - 81 tablespoons of Epsom salts for a 135 gallon.
Step four: Do not feed the fish at anytime during the Epsoms salt treatment, you will have to wait until the complete treatment is finished. I do mean...NO FOOD!
Step five: Water changes will take place every second day for six days & will be as follows.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day one: Do a 50% water change & add Epsom salts to replacement water.
Day two: -
Day three: Do a 50% water change & add Epsom salts to replacement water.
Day four: -
Day five: Do a 50% water change & add Epsom salts to replacement water.
Day six: -
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Step six: The fish should be wanting food at this point, feed small amounts until you work back to regular feedings. (Epsom salts will be used throughout full treatment & all replacement water) NOTE: My fish are used to 50% water changes, I do 50% approx. Every 5 - 6 days. If you only do approx. 30-40% then I would do the same throughout the treatment or you may shock your fish & possibly lose fish/fishes.
Kim - July 10, 2007 12:53 PM (GMT)
That's interesting, David. I'm really looking for other peoples treatment methods and success rates, so I'm very glad you posted yours!
I find that the old stand by treatments of Clout and metronidazole aren't working in many, many cases, and it's almost as if the disease/illness just needs to run its course. IMO, if we really aren't dealing with anything bacterial, then the epsom salt is one of the best things we can do for them, along with the fasting.
I tend to believe that rather than saying that these fish are prone to bloat, we should perhaps rephrase that and say that these fish are prone to digestive disorders. This would explain why we don't have success in treating them all in the same manner.
I use epsom salt in conjunction with meds or as a preventative, but I've never used it as full treatment.
I don't believe that everytime you see white feces you are dealing with bloat! If the white feces is accompanied by other bloat like symptoms, that's one thing, but white feces alone does not mean bloat, IMO.
So, I have some questions for you...(I plan to do something with this thread as far as the different treatment methods, so please just bear with me!)
Are you saying you only use the epsom salt in the QT? Not the main tank for the fish that aren't showing visible signs of bloat?
What symptoms were your fish showing before you began treatment? On a scale of 1 to 10, with 1 being the best of health and 10 being the worse of health, how would you rate the fish you treated in this manner initially? Would you consider them mildy affected, or severely affected?
Did you lose any fish by using this treatment method?
How many times have you used this treatment method?
Thanks so much for chiming in on this...I wish more would come forward with their experiences and treatment modes. Gimme an A!
Kim
I find that the old stand by treatments of Clout and metronidazole aren't working in many, many cases, and it's almost as if the disease/illness just needs to run its course. IMO, if we really aren't dealing with anything bacterial, then the epsom salt is one of the best things we can do for them, along with the fasting.
I tend to believe that rather than saying that these fish are prone to bloat, we should perhaps rephrase that and say that these fish are prone to digestive disorders. This would explain why we don't have success in treating them all in the same manner.
I use epsom salt in conjunction with meds or as a preventative, but I've never used it as full treatment.
I don't believe that everytime you see white feces you are dealing with bloat! If the white feces is accompanied by other bloat like symptoms, that's one thing, but white feces alone does not mean bloat, IMO.
So, I have some questions for you...(I plan to do something with this thread as far as the different treatment methods, so please just bear with me!)
Are you saying you only use the epsom salt in the QT? Not the main tank for the fish that aren't showing visible signs of bloat?
What symptoms were your fish showing before you began treatment? On a scale of 1 to 10, with 1 being the best of health and 10 being the worse of health, how would you rate the fish you treated in this manner initially? Would you consider them mildy affected, or severely affected?
Did you lose any fish by using this treatment method?
How many times have you used this treatment method?
Thanks so much for chiming in on this...I wish more would come forward with their experiences and treatment modes. Gimme an A!
Kim
buntbarsch - July 11, 2007 07:06 PM (GMT)
Kim, don't question the existence of bloat because it is very real. The only problem is that at least 90% of the so-called "bloat cases" have nothing to do with that particular illness. It is mostly the new and unexperienced Tropheus keepers that overreact every time their fish do not act normal. Every little change out of the ordinary is blamed on bloat and quickly the heavy medicine bag comes out and everything from Clout to Metro gets thrown into the tank and the poor inhabitants have to deal with it. Now I want to make clear that I do not blame the "new and unexperienced Tropheus keepers" with my statements. I blame the hobbyist that scare them by publishing horror stories about bloat and telling people that Tropheus are "very sensitive" in getting this disease. That of course is big BS and nothing could be further from the truth. Just go on ANY cichlid forum and there is only one illness everybody is talking about: bloat. You never hear any discussions about other illnesses that are as dangerous as bloat like "Hole in the head" decease in Discus and Eartheaters (Geophagus,....). That has to stop. We need to do more educating and less scaring.
Kim, you are absolutely correct by saying:"I think we tend to lump a lot of gastrointestinal disorders under the diagnosis of bloat,........." People are so scared about this illness that they quickly come to the wrong conclusion or just want to be "proactive". In these cases all you do is make it worse. I too had some bouts with bloat but only with wild Tropheus. I never had any case of bloat with tank bred Tropheus and I never had to deal with this illness with any other type of Cichlid. The only "successful" treatment for me was the Clout treatment I mentioned in my previous post (http://z7.invisionfree.com/Cichlid_Haven/index.php?showtopic=315), that's why I stick with it. I haven't had any bloat problems in years but every year I discard my old Clout packages and replace it with some new ones. Just in case :D Clout is the only medication I keep in my fish room. For everything else I just use the salt/temperature method.
The one and ONLY real treatment against bloat is prevention. If you do your weekly water changes of at least 40%, have good filtration, feed properly and leave your fish alone without rearranging the tank every 2 weeks or introduce incompatible tank mates, I guarantee you that your fish will NOT get bloat.
Kim, I am glad you started this topic and I do like the direction it is taking.
NO HORROR STORIES Cheers!!!
Kim, you are absolutely correct by saying:"I think we tend to lump a lot of gastrointestinal disorders under the diagnosis of bloat,........." People are so scared about this illness that they quickly come to the wrong conclusion or just want to be "proactive". In these cases all you do is make it worse. I too had some bouts with bloat but only with wild Tropheus. I never had any case of bloat with tank bred Tropheus and I never had to deal with this illness with any other type of Cichlid. The only "successful" treatment for me was the Clout treatment I mentioned in my previous post (http://z7.invisionfree.com/Cichlid_Haven/index.php?showtopic=315), that's why I stick with it. I haven't had any bloat problems in years but every year I discard my old Clout packages and replace it with some new ones. Just in case :D Clout is the only medication I keep in my fish room. For everything else I just use the salt/temperature method.
The one and ONLY real treatment against bloat is prevention. If you do your weekly water changes of at least 40%, have good filtration, feed properly and leave your fish alone without rearranging the tank every 2 weeks or introduce incompatible tank mates, I guarantee you that your fish will NOT get bloat.
Kim, I am glad you started this topic and I do like the direction it is taking.
NO HORROR STORIES Cheers!!!
Kim - July 11, 2007 11:08 PM (GMT)
Are you still successfully finding Clout on the shelves around here, Klaus? I've been looking for a packet for stash and cannot find it anywhere around here!
I like to have it on hand, just in case.
It's not that I don't think bloat is real...I keep going back to that "umbrella diagnosis" thing...
People want to believe that as soon as they see white feces, they have bloat. Never mind the fact that the fish is eating and behaving totally normal otherwise.
A fish that won't eat may have a bacterial or viral infection. It might be bloat, but without other symptoms, it's impossible to say.
A fish that appears bloated can appear that way for several reasons. Sure, it could be bloat...But it could also be dropsy, or organ failure from poor water conditions or illness. An overly thin fish may not be aggressive enough to get the food that it needs.
A fish that is being reclusive could be behaving that way because it is being terrorized by another fish, or it could be hiding out because it feels like crap.
Now, give me a fish that has white feces, won't eat, is bloated OR emaciated, AND being reclusive, and I'll think it's time to treat for bloat.
The only time I have ever been 100% certain that my fish had bloat was with my Nangus. I'm not in the least bit afraid to keep Tropheus again, because I know what I did wrong.
I've suspected bloat in wild caught fish before, but was never firmly convinced that was what it was. It's easy to jump to conclusions when you start losing fish. worry wart!
It's also very important that when you ARE dealing with actual bloat, you follow a trusted treatment regimen to a tee...I see far too many people try a day of this and a day of that and then they don't understand why it didn't work. If you start a treatment, follow it through.
It's hard to advise people on what to do for sick fish. It's alot easier to make a determination when it's YOUR tank and you can see what's going on. Anytime you have a problem going on in your tanks and need help from anyone on any forum anywhere, make sure you provide as much information as possible.
There is usually a stressor inside a tank that is causing your problems, and the answer isn't always in medication! Sometimes it is as simple as the fish you are trying to keep together, or your tank maintenance (or lack thereof).
Kim
I like to have it on hand, just in case.
It's not that I don't think bloat is real...I keep going back to that "umbrella diagnosis" thing...
People want to believe that as soon as they see white feces, they have bloat. Never mind the fact that the fish is eating and behaving totally normal otherwise.
A fish that won't eat may have a bacterial or viral infection. It might be bloat, but without other symptoms, it's impossible to say.
A fish that appears bloated can appear that way for several reasons. Sure, it could be bloat...But it could also be dropsy, or organ failure from poor water conditions or illness. An overly thin fish may not be aggressive enough to get the food that it needs.
A fish that is being reclusive could be behaving that way because it is being terrorized by another fish, or it could be hiding out because it feels like crap.
Now, give me a fish that has white feces, won't eat, is bloated OR emaciated, AND being reclusive, and I'll think it's time to treat for bloat.
The only time I have ever been 100% certain that my fish had bloat was with my Nangus. I'm not in the least bit afraid to keep Tropheus again, because I know what I did wrong.
I've suspected bloat in wild caught fish before, but was never firmly convinced that was what it was. It's easy to jump to conclusions when you start losing fish. worry wart!
It's also very important that when you ARE dealing with actual bloat, you follow a trusted treatment regimen to a tee...I see far too many people try a day of this and a day of that and then they don't understand why it didn't work. If you start a treatment, follow it through.
It's hard to advise people on what to do for sick fish. It's alot easier to make a determination when it's YOUR tank and you can see what's going on. Anytime you have a problem going on in your tanks and need help from anyone on any forum anywhere, make sure you provide as much information as possible.
There is usually a stressor inside a tank that is causing your problems, and the answer isn't always in medication! Sometimes it is as simple as the fish you are trying to keep together, or your tank maintenance (or lack thereof).
Kim
markw - July 16, 2007 04:44 PM (GMT)
Kim, With regard to bloat and the issues Klaus brings up, I've seen many "versions" of what people self diagnose as bloat. Often they are correct, but as Klaus so correctly states, treatments are administered for sometimes all the wrong reasons. I have had issues mostly with wild caught imports, and I have learned that until a necropsy is done, and completely diagnosed, then mistreating causes more problems than cures. As I posted in the Tang section with regard to Stephs issue, I now use a treatment that was prescribed by an ichiologist specifically for what the ailment was. Clout was not part of the cure. It was a combination of very specific antibiotics that specifically targeted the parasite. I didn't even have white stringy feces as a symptom. Bloat is a very generic term. Trophs are susceptible to bacterial problems intestinally due to their extaordinarily long tract. As Klaus says, you should never have any issues with Trophs if you do the water changes etc. I've seen Trophs with bulging eyes, or puffed out abdomens and stringy feces, but it wasn't necessarily bloat. In those cases, they continued to eat, and if they eat I'll feed them medicated food, just to prevent anything further.
Excellent thread for those that experience these issues, but like that crazy guy with the fancy camera says, don't go into hysteria with the first Troph that looks a little different.
markw
Excellent thread for those that experience these issues, but like that crazy guy with the fancy camera says, don't go into hysteria with the first Troph that looks a little different.
markw
buntbarsch - July 16, 2007 07:44 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (markw @ Jul 16 2007, 08:44 AM) |
| Excellent thread for those that experience these issues, but like that crazy guy with the fancy camera says, .............. |
Hey Mark, do I know this guy????????? On the Floor Laughing Cheers!!!
Ad Konings describes in his book:"Back to Nature Guide to Tanganyika Cichlids" (second edition) different types of "bloat", specifically one he calls "Tropheus Bloat". He points out that this particular type of bloat is only found in Tropheus and he also describes a form of treatment.
When I get home from work I will be able to give you more info on this.
Kim - July 16, 2007 10:35 PM (GMT)
Great guys, keep contributing information...I'm really planning to go somewhere with this thread!
markw, I'd really like to hear more about the necropsy and the treatment you used, when you have time.
Kim
markw, I'd really like to hear more about the necropsy and the treatment you used, when you have time.
Kim
buntbarsch - July 17, 2007 12:47 AM (GMT)
OK, I'm home. The section about bloat in Ad Konings book is on page 46 - 48. Anybody who is interested in Tanganjika Cichlids should have this book on his shelf. It is not very expensive like most specialized books but it packs a huge amount of useful info.
PoohBear - July 17, 2007 02:36 AM (GMT)
Thanks for the book title, Klaus. I had a Barnes and Noble gift certificate which I used to purchase it. From the excerpt you posted, it looks pretty informative. Can't wait to get it. Good Job
buntbarsch - July 17, 2007 12:24 PM (GMT)
Money well spent, you won't regret it Kelly. Good Job
markw - July 17, 2007 03:26 PM (GMT)
Like I mentioned in a previous post, metro is a broad based antibiotic, and a specific 2nd antibiotic to target the parasite, is needed. I have used with great success neomycin and kanomycin. The 2nd more adapt at being absorbed when fish stopped eating. The big differnence I experienced that I have never seen before and neither had the ichiologist I worked with was feces that appeared like off-white pellets. Almost similar to larvae(but wasn't). The necropsy revealed the parasite, and her comments suggested that the ones that died could not have been cured as the stages were too advanced. The trick was to save what was left of the colony and not o let it spread. Thats where the antibiotics saved me(and the fish!)
Kim - July 17, 2007 05:16 PM (GMT)
Great read, Klaus! Thanks so much for posting it!
In humans, a similar "flagellate imbalance" is caused by overuse of particular antibiotics. The balance between the "good" intestinal flora and the "bad" intestinal flora is disturbed by the use of the antibiotics, and the "bad" bacteria overruns the intestinal tract. It is treated with Flagyl or Vancomycin.
I wonder how many cases of bloat are caused by randomly throwing meds in a tank???
Kim
In humans, a similar "flagellate imbalance" is caused by overuse of particular antibiotics. The balance between the "good" intestinal flora and the "bad" intestinal flora is disturbed by the use of the antibiotics, and the "bad" bacteria overruns the intestinal tract. It is treated with Flagyl or Vancomycin.
I wonder how many cases of bloat are caused by randomly throwing meds in a tank???
Kim
buntbarsch - July 17, 2007 11:49 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Kim @ Jul 17 2007, 09:16 AM) |
| I wonder how many cases of bloat are caused by randomly throwing meds in a tank??? |
Couldn't agree more the Clap the Clap the Clap
Tremoun - July 23, 2007 01:14 AM (GMT)
One day I noticed one of my WC's gagging.I isolated it treated with Metro 3 days later,,,Dead.That happened to me again and again.Then this is what I did:
As soon as i noticed a fish gagging or spitting up food I Isolated it and did a 6 day fix and so far 3 for 3.
Day 1:Full dose of clout.
Day 2:Half dose of clout
Day 3:Nothing
Day 4:80% waterchange full dose of clout
Day 5:half dose clout
Day 6:80% waterchange with fresh water taken from main Tank.After this try feeding and observe. Try to feed a little bit every day with daily waterchanges with fresh water taken from main tank until fish is eating and pooing normally.
NOTE:DO NOT FEED DURING THE SIX DAYS:
I ALSO SWITCHED FOOD TO AQUADINE ONLY FROM NOW ON...
Good Luck and hope this helps
Angelo
As soon as i noticed a fish gagging or spitting up food I Isolated it and did a 6 day fix and so far 3 for 3.
Day 1:Full dose of clout.
Day 2:Half dose of clout
Day 3:Nothing
Day 4:80% waterchange full dose of clout
Day 5:half dose clout
Day 6:80% waterchange with fresh water taken from main Tank.After this try feeding and observe. Try to feed a little bit every day with daily waterchanges with fresh water taken from main tank until fish is eating and pooing normally.
NOTE:DO NOT FEED DURING THE SIX DAYS:
I ALSO SWITCHED FOOD TO AQUADINE ONLY FROM NOW ON...
Good Luck and hope this helps
Angelo