Since i have had my Yellow Labs i have noticed 2 very shy ones. One of the 2 shy babies comes out only when feeding time. The other shy baby dude comes out has one bite, spits it out and goes back into hiding. Does this mean i am going to loose them and they will end up going to fishy heaven? worry wart!

It's normal for new fish to be a little shy and/or skittish at first.

But IMO, it's never normal for an african cichlid to refuse or spit out food.

You may need to try a different food source. Can you find out what they
were eating before you bought them?

You could try some finely minced garlic and see if you can get them
to eat it.

Before we jump to disease (bloat, etc.) maybe try the change in food.

You could also add some epsom salt to the tank at a rate of 1 cup (USA) to
100 gallons. ( Not good at metric system, sorry)

The salt would act as a laxative just in case there is a possibility of disease.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Ok thanx for the info preacherboy.

Cheers!!!

Geelite, have you tested your water for ammonia and nitrites? This is the new tank that you just set up and added fish to, right?

It would help if you could give some more info such as tank size, how many labs you have, tankmates, etc.

Aura, here are my details...

Tank size 6 x 2 x 2 ft

4 x Cyrtocara moorii 2 inches
8 x Yellow Labs

NO2 - 0
NO3 - 2.5
NH4 - 0
pH - 8.1
KH - 7
GH - 15

By your post, I'm assuming that your...

Ammonia= 0

Nitrites (NO2) = 0

Nitrates (NO3) = 2.5

Is that what you're telling us?

I'm really hesitant to recommend any type of medications because I'm not very experienced with treating fish diseases or problems.

Hopefully Kim will see this; she has a lot of experience helping people through these situations. :Help!:

Have you noticed if these fish have been pooping at all? Does it look normal or is it white and thin and stringy?

Are they being chased around more than the others?

Is it possible that they could be females holding eggs?

Have you tried a different kind of food to see if that made any difference?

Sorry about all of the questions, but I think the answers will help (Kim) determine if you need to consider using some type of medication.

Geelite, any update...how are your little labs doing?

Yep preacherboy

No problem with all the questions Aura.

I have not noticed any pooping going on, i have not been watching them only when feeding, been busy with other stuff.

No chasing happening in the tank, they all seem happy, it is a palace after all.

Not sure if they are females, they are only 1-2 inches, still babies.

Well i have only fed them 2 types of foods, flakes and pellets from the same brand. I have some frozen Daphnia i was thinking of feeding but not sure if i can feed it to them. I have posted a new thread regarding the Daphnia under foods.

Cheers!!!

Aura they are still the same, always in hiding. I have 8 of them as i mentioned, the biggest and smallest ones are in hiding. I noticed the small one last night and today just resting on a rock and sort of balancing itself in one position worry wart!

I'm sorry...I just saw this thread!

Geelite, how did you cycle this tank? Did you do a fishless cycle and add ammonia, cycle it with these Yellow labs, or did you use established filter media to force the cycle?

Did you monitor your water while cycling and did you ever witness the spike in ammonia and nitrites?

What type test kits are you using? Dip stick or liquid vials? How old are they?

It does sound like you have problems going on, but we need to determine where those problems are stemming from. I'm really hesitant to have you throw any meds in a new tank.

Kim

Hi Kim.

I cycled the tank fishless for the first 2 weeks, then added those crazy Melanochromis killers, then took them back to the LFS after 2 weeks, then had an empty tank for a week, then added my new fish with established gravel from my LFS. I dont believe in using chemicals for cycling except 1 pro stuff i know from Belgium, the others i think are bull.

Yes i did monitor the water but not everyday like i usually do and did not notice the spike blinky ...i have been testing my tank everyday since my new fish so i think the tank did spike earler without the new fish in it.

I use a very good liquid type test kits from UK and dont think any of u's might of heard of them but i have been using this company for over 10 years, they are much better than any other stuff i can get on the island where i live. Test kits are from NT Labs and are all brand new and not expired.

I also dont want to use any meds in my tank worry wart!

Here is an update. As i said the smallest and biggest of the Labs are the sick ones. The big one i have not seen for 24hours until an hour ago, and the small one is sort of skinny and i can notice it has a big head for its body...i did notice the small one have a bite of food today.

Kim, i just checked my log book and think that my tank did spike, here is the info...

27th Dec - NO2=4 NH4=0.2
30th Dec - NO2=3 NH4=0.2
2nd Jan - NO2=2 NH4=0
11th Jan - NO2=1 NH4=0
12th Jan - NO2=0.5 NH4=0
13-14th Jan - NO2=0.25 NH4=0
17th Jan - NO2=0 NH4=0

Hap and Labs were added on 17th Jan.

By fishless cycle, do you mean you used ammonia or a piece of shrimp or raw fish? If not, then those first two weeks did absolutely nothing as far as cycling goes.

The tank probably began it's cycle with the Melanochromis, but 2 weeks may not have been long enough for the cycle to complete.

Then, the tank sat empty for a week, which would have caused you to lose all of the beneficial bacteria that you had built up.

So, my guess is that when you added the Yellow labs, the cycle had to start all over again.

It's always best to cycle a tank with fish you don't plan to keep long term. Putting the cichlids through the cycling period is often why people have such difficulty the first few months of cichlid keeping. The cycle itself stresses the fish, challenging their immune system and leaving them open for all types of infection and illness, one of the most common ones we see is bloat, which can result in "skinny" fish that aren't eating properly or behaving properly. Having fish endure the cycle can also lead to long term internal organ damage that you might not see for months.

Regardless, it sounds like you may have some internal parasites.

The least "invasive" thing you can do is add epsom salt to the tank at 1 cup per 100G of water. This serves as a mild laxative, and works as a preventative for the fish who are not yet affected. Internal parasites are believed to be spread by healthy fish mouthing the feces of infected fish, so frequent water changes and substrate vacuumings are a must. You could also offer some food soaked in an antiparasitic medication, which would be less invasive than treating the water column of the tank. Keep in mind that the fish who aren't eating (if there are any) will not be treated or cured by either of these methods....I'm just suggesting the two methods of controlling the problem that will do the least amount of damage to the tank in general.

Heavily medicating a new tank can set you back to the beginning, but IMO, if you don't do something, you may wind up with a lot of complications. Secondary infections are very common with fish, so it's always best to do what you can to straighten things out at the first sign of a problem.

Kim

Kim, when i cycled the tank i did it with nothing, no fish and no chemicals. I didnt want to add any fish for cycling cause its a big tank with many rocks and it will be impossible to catch them.

Thank you for all your help and i will go ahead with the Epsom salts etc...hope everythings work out ohhh please ohh please

Geelite, I think we have different definitions of "cycle". idunno

By cycling the tank, we are talking about the process where you establish the bacteria that will break down and convert the toxic ammonia and nitrites to nitrate. To do this you need something to feed this bacteria. That's where the fish or ammonia comes in. You can't cycle the tank if you add nothing to it.


The gravel that you added from the fish store will help to reestablish the bacteria, but I think you should still be watching out for a spike in your ammonia and nitrite.

Good luck - I don't want you to lose any of your fish!

I know all about cycling, its just been YEARS, around 8 years since i did a new tank setup and guess my memory is screwed up especially after my car accident, so dunno what happened there and why i did it like that dumb dumb

Cheers!!!

Since you already have fish in the tank, you will need to monitor your daily water parameters (ammonia, nitrate and nitrite at the least) and be prepared to do water changes as necessary. The ammonia and nitrite levels will be toxic to your fish, so even though the water changes will delay the "stability" of your tank, they will be necessary.

This isn't to say that your fish aren't sick, or that they will be okay. The nitrogen cycle of a tank can be quite harmful to them, but I don't think I would add meds to the water column at this point.

Good luck!

Kim

Hi Kim. How much is a cup? Hmmmm Can you tell me in mass or volume please?

16 tablespoons equal 1 cup...Does that help?

Kim

Yep...thank you so much Cheers!!!

That equals 225 grams, for those of you who dont know it and suck in the kitchen like me somethig tinks in ere!

By the way Kim, would the Epsom Salt hurt my plants? Hmmmm

I've never used it full strength in a planted tank, but I have used it at half that dosage without any problems.

Kim

dead fish or dead plant - I'd risk the plants. i think they'll be ok - can't guarantee it, but think so.

All the input you're getting makes sense to me.

I'll just add in that I have had some yellow labs that were extra shy and took longer to get acclimatized and social. The gang here told me to be patient, and they eventually stopped being shy.

I also have a holding female Lab who is showing some behaviors similar to what you've described.

I am NOT saying that you should not try the remedies Kim et all have advised -- their advice sounds very good. I've never had adding salt cause problems in my tanks. Just suggesting you also keep an eye on behavior to see if you see a buccal cavity starting to stretch, or a little more social behavior each day.

Thanx all Good Job

Well as much i hate to say it i have lost a Lab :Sad: , i found it right in the back of the tank under my rocks which was really difficult to get it out, i had to use an air hose pipe with alot of patience and bending the pipe to get it right in there and siphoned it out. I have also noticed that for the last 2 days now another lab is missing some where and cant seem to find it. I have checked my ammonia and all is good.

Sorry to hear it -- we all know that rotten feeling. dumb dumb

Yeah worry wart! ...i still cant find the other fish in my tank until today and no trace of ammonia Hmmmm

Sorry you lost her, geelite.

You may need to consider treating wtih meds, but in a newer tank, you may be experiencing start up problems rather than illness.

With all the rock work you have, you're going to have problems locating fish. Pick up a turkey baster and try using that to flush debris and stuff out of the crevices...You might be able to find a dead fish that way.

Hopefully, it's just being elusive!

Kim

Hello Kim twitchy

I already used a powerhead to flush things around and nothing except for loads of poo. Also i still have not put a background on my tank so i keep peeking around the back and still cant find it. Just hope its really good at playing peek a boo

Placing a background on your tank may help your fish to settle in better,
escpecially if there is a lot of movement on both sides of the tank.

Just my opinion.

I know what you mean preacherboy, especially with the light coming in from the back where i have my second tank. I am waiting for my LFS to get their new shipment for my background...and as usual they keep saying next week, next week, next week idunno

Here's an option for you!

Get a can of Krylon fusion spray paint and just paint the back
glass panel black. ( I don't know if this brand is available in Bahrain, but
I would think any comparable paint will work)

No tape to mess with and if you don't like it, you can scrape the paint
off easily enough with a razor blade and a little effort.

For what its worth!

Or you can pick up a piece of corrugated plastic and buy spray paint for plastic lawn furniture. It works great, and you can paint each side a different colour and flip it when you get bored with one colour.

Kim

Kim, I looked all over the place for that stuff when you first posted about it and couldn't find it anywhere.

So I went with large sheets of styrofoam cut to size and spray painted that. I have also used fabric on some of my tanks. The smaller tanks I just paint directly on the back glass.

I never liked painting the back of my tanks PB. I will be painting my tanks in my fish room but dont really want to do that to my baby at home blinky

Also with my background i will only be using tape on the top and just a little on the sides so i can always lift it if i need to peak in the back...incase of emergency...missing fish etc Now this should be good!

But thanx for the info on the Krylon fusion spray paint, i'll check it out Good Job ...I was going to use water based enamel paint.

Never heard of that stuff before Hmmmm